Curse

Lonesamurai · Aug 12, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Well, the thing people always seem to forget is, just because they are "near extinct" doesn't mean they can't be a playable race. Elves are "nearly extinct" in Warhammer Online, but they are a playable race. All "near extinct" means is we won't see towns full of em and lots of NPCs. If you make "stone dwarf" some sort of unlockable prestige class, it might still be kinda rare.

but you can't compare with High Elves with the GW dwarves

High Elves are a lost remnant of the Eldar Race,just as the Warhammer fantasy world is a world lost in warp storms within Imperial Space (some say near the Cadian Gate near the Eye of Terror) and although the Eldar are a race on the edge of extinction,they still number in the billions, maybe trillions on their Craftworlds

The Dwarves of Deldrimor,(as stated earlier) turned to stone to keep Primordius' forces at bay and as such are both too STONY and too busy to be a playable race in GW2

Gigashadow · Aug 12, 2009, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Here, this sums it up TBC lore well. Btw, I hate elves in space, whether it's WoW or Warhammer's Eldar.

http://lorelol.ytmnd.com/

Mordakai · Aug 12, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

I won't shed a tear for the Dwarves, I want Guild Wars 2 to be as original as a fantasy game can be (yes, I realize that's somewhat a contradiction).

Charr are pretty unique, Asura are cool, the Norn are, well, they are pretty derivative, but I know they will be popular.

The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not). If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!

Eliz Genevieve · Aug 12, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not). If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!

I think anyone would be.
But then again, they should know what feelings are, Ventari should've transimted that way too well in the Tablet.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 12, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not).

The Sylvari are closer to the Greek Nymphs and Dryads (more so of Dryads) and less like the Norse Light Elves.

The idea that elves have anything in common with nature is actually pretty false, in terms of the elfish origin. They would be seen more of as a group of beings which look at the whole, not so much are in tune with the world. It is pretty much comparing a tree hugger to a taoist when comparing what seems to be the influence of Sylvari (Nymphs and Dryads) to elves. In that order, mind you.

Yes, that may very well mean the average Sylvari NPC will be a hippie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!

You must hate Razah.

Axwind · Aug 12, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

While texture and complexity in terms of alignment is a good thing, at the same time, one should avoid having too many shades of gray. There should be some black and white, but not so much as to drown out the gray. I hope that in GW2, we'll be presented with multiple paths in quests and dialogue and such rather than just one, sort of how NWN2 is with its branching dialogue and alternate story paths (such as how you can choose which way to get into Blacklake District in Neverwinter, for example). Bobby Stein mentioned in his wiki that dialogue in GW2 was going to be done differently than it is in GW1, so hopefully it's something like the above.

And while the dragons are certainly enemy enough, who says they and Joko are the only ones? It's not something I expect Anet to think of, but it would be interesting if the dragons' awakening was in fact not entirely of their own will, but rather aided by an as-yet unmentioned enemy with a hidden agenda of his or her own, one in which the unleashing of the dragons upon the world is but a prelude to an even darker struggle. The dragons, of course, would not take kindly to someone or something in the shadows attempting to use them like puppets, but neither would they stoop so low as to ally with any of what they see as inferior races (humans, Charr, etc.) to strike back, preferring instead to rely on their own considerable power.

So in such a scenario, you have not only conflicted allies (natural tensions between humans and Charr, Norn and Asura, etc.), but conflict between enemies as well, with the playable races and the world itself caught in the middle. The waker of the dragons need not be a conquest-obssessed megalomaniac, either, but for once a more complex, conflicted individual with entirely other, more personal motives.

draxynnic · Aug 13, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

but you can't compare with High Elves with the GW dwarves

High Elves are a lost remnant of the Eldar Race,just as the Warhammer fantasy world is a world lost in warp storms within Imperial Space (some say near the Cadian Gate near the Eye of Terror) and although the Eldar are a race on the edge of extinction,they still number in the billions, maybe trillions on their Craftworlds

Isn't that just an unconfirmed theory? Yes, there are plenty of hints of a connection between the two universes, but it could be that they're in parallel universes that only have the Warp in common... and it's evidently not easy to move between them, otherwise one would expect the Fantasy world to found by Chaos Marines - or something more 40K-ish than stock demons - sooner or later. Apart from racial similarities, the main connection we have is the Old Ones - and that connection is much more recent than the fall of that race in the Imperial galaxy, so whether it's in a parallel universe or somewhere else, it seems much more likely that it was in some extragalactic hideout of the Old Ones than nestled in close to the Eldar home worlds.

Plus, from memory the Liber Chaotica describes the Eldar as being similar but different to the Asur, with the difference being implied to be more than just technology. Given the propensity of the Old Ones for genetic engineering, they may have been trying to engineer a breed of Eldar that was less vulnerable to Chaos. It's also notable that while Slaanesh exists in the Fantasy universe, he/she/it neither appears to have eaten the Elven gods, nor does he/she/it seem to have any special thirst for Elven souls over those of other races in the WHF world.

Possibly more relevant, however, is that Elves in Warhammer aren't really close to extinction in technical terms. They're dwindling in a manner that suggests that if it isn't reversed they will die out sooner or later, but the impression I've always had is that the total number of High Elves is still fairly close to the population of the Empire (the 'empty city syndrome' coming from the High Elves being that much more spread out, having Ulthuan, Arnheim, and various other colonies dotted around the world, and from having had a much higher population in the past). The Guild Wars dwarves, on the other hand, give me the impression of there only being a few thousand remaining - certainly not enough for several million players to each have a dwarf or two each.

squigoth · Aug 13, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Down

That leaves the Sylvari.. but they are a non-violent race as far as i could see on the wiki
?

evil doesnt mean violent

Marvollo Gaunt · Aug 13, 2009, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Down

When you look at the list of playable races which we have heard of so far, you have a list of five playable races.
* Asura
* Charr
* Human
* Norn
* Sylvari

But are these races really balanced when you think of a good vs evil scenario. So far the only evil race i see on the list is the Charr ?
Am i the only one who think that is a little lame, i would really love some more "evil" races.
Asura could go as a kind of "evil" because of their personality, but still they help all the other ones in Eye of the North.
Human's aint evil for sure, and Norn can't be either since they also assist the humans in Eye of the North.
That leaves the Sylvari.. but they are a non-violent race as far as i could see on the wiki

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that aint much evil in GW2 to me?

well, GW2 is supposed to take place like what 700 years after EoTN? That leaves a lot of room for Anet to work around alliances and things like that.

Winterclaw · Aug 13, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I don't understand the purpose of alignments in an MMO. Considering the appeal of an online game lies in the interaction with other players splitting the population for the sake of lore doesn't make sense.

I think if done right splitting the population would encourage both cooperation within each side because of the competition between the sides. However you'd have to make people strong fans of one side or the other.

Take SWG or the KOTOR mmo. You've got a clear division of sides and I don't think that most of the time you'd have one side hanging out with the other. Or that WWII game (whatever happened to that). You probably shouldn't have a group of nazi stormtroopers and SS officers fighting for the british and americans.

That said, I don't expect sides in GW2 though.

Eliz Genevieve · Aug 13, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvollo Gaunt

well, GW2 is supposed to take place like what 700 years after EoTN? That leaves a lot of room for Anet to work around alliances and things like that.

250 years to be more precise.

MithranArkanere · Aug 13, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Charr are not necessarily evil.
They may be cunning, sly and even a bit cruel, but they don't have to be evil.
Charr and Human hate each other, but is a stupid hate like Luxon vs Kurzick.
But hating each other doesn't mean that they are evil, it just mean that they are stupid.
Now, when they eat people, now that's evil. You don't it something that can ask you not to, that's basic manners.

The Charr we know are just pushed by the Shamans... and very hungry.

Games that allow both good an evil should have HUGE downsides when you choose evil, like not being able to enter towns, not accessing to many shops, being chased by super powerful law enforcers that will deliver incommensurable amounts of pain and kill you with their gaze...
Evil is to be banished, vanquished, DESTROYED, not to be played with as if it was harmless.

Ravious · Aug 13, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I think if you watch 300, you will understand how Charr may be in GW2. Charr are like Spartans, and humans are like Athenians. Spartans have all contempt for Athenians as being [something I can't post here], but when the Athenians do push back Xerxes they are impressed.

I personally love the dwarves story. It is a tragic, selfless tale. They gave up free will, etc. in order to become weapons knowing that the change could never be undone. As an entire race that's pretty significant. I can't wait for the little vignettes on the remaining "dwarves" in GW2.

Lonesamurai · Aug 13, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I'm actually looking forward to meeting the stone dwarves in GW2 aswell

BrettM · Aug 13, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

CNow, when they eat people, now that's evil. You don't it something that can ask you not to, that's basic manners.

That's the omnivore point of view. Intelligent carnivores might have a different definition of manners.

Is there any evidence in GW that any humans were actually used for food? Certainly humans were held prisoner, enslaved, and used for some vile sport. (But Kournans used centaurs as slave labor, and might well have gotten around to crueler uses, so Charr aren't uniquely evil in this regard.) However, calling us "meat" to rattle us and actually using us as meat are two different things.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 13, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Is there any evidence in GW that any humans were actually used for food? Certainly humans were held prisoner, enslaved, and used for some vile sport. (But Kournans used centaurs as slave labor, and might well have gotten around to crueler uses, so Charr aren't uniquely evil in this regard.) However, calling us "meat" to rattle us and actually using us as meat are two different things.

Charr, Centaurs, and Tengu are all known to have eaten humans. However, for Tengu, it is only said for the Sensali, and it may be a biased report (as said in the Canthan lore on the pre-Tengu Wars time period).

Lihinel · Aug 13, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

To be fair we skin them and probaly eat a Charr stake once in a while too.
(My Elementalist likes charred Charr stake the most.)

Mordakai · Aug 13, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I don't know if eating another race is more "evil" than killing it for no reason...

after all, what else are Charr going to eat? Grawl meat? Ewwww.....

Konig Des Todes · Aug 13, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Charr's food possibilities are Grawl, wolves/ravens, mandragors (which is unhealthy, as proven by a collector dialogue, and is prisoners' food), skales, mantids and humans.

Which would you eat as a Charr? Usable creatures *Grawl, wolves, ravens*, unhealthy creatures *mandragors*, or enemies *humans*?

tmr819 · Aug 13, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Hmmm, I think it would be fun to see centaurs as an additional playable race in GW2.

As far as "good versus evil", what I'd like to see -- if GW2 does introduce an Alliance/Horde kind of dynamic -- is for the two sides to be both "good" but be fiercely opposed to another. Present players with a faction choice that is not so cut and dried. I love the way conflicts are set up in G. R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series, wherein good guys are often very bad and bad guys are, as well, not always as bad as they seem.

If GW2 were to set up some sort of massive overarching conflict, wherein each side has both good and bad aspects, and then allow players to choose to play any race but to also choose an alignment at some point later in the game, I think that would be pretty fun. The system might even permit "defections" to the other side in some circumstances.